From bandc@ANGEL.UMAR.MXTue Apr 29 15:40:55 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:26:14 +0600 From: cristina To: ALGAE-L@Danann.hea.ie Subject: Re: undulipodia or flagella and cilia??? I want to thank all for your opinions and recomendations. These are all the responses I got. Christine Band ______________________________________________________________________________ >Dr. Schmidt (Band Schmidt?) > >I teach my intro bio students to call a eukaryotic flagellum an undulipodium, >since, as Margulis points out, it is structurally nothing like a prokaryotic >flagellum. However, the terms flagellum ("little whip") and cilium ("eyelash") >are much more descriptive as far as gross morphology, i.e., by light >microscopy. I suspect the terms will remain. > >Bill Lamberts > >_____________________________________________________ > >William Lamberts > wlamberts@csbsju.edu >Biology Department O: >320-363-3092 >St. John's University/College of St. Benedict H: 320-203-8390 >Collegeville, MN 56321-3000 fax: 320-363-3202 > >http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~wlambert/ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Dear Christine, I am a phycologist whose research is centered primarily on seaweeds, but I also try to keep up with literature on (other?) protists as well. My general feeling is that Margulis' term undulipodia has been "snubbed" by most other scientists. In other words, you'll find it only used rarely and often by Margulis herself. My *personal opinion* is that undulipodia is a superflous term and that most people choose not to use it. You may get a more definitive answer from someone else. Again. my impressions are drawn only from teh literature I've read. Craig Bailey LSU _____________________________________________________________________________ I work with Chlamydomonas, and we ALWAYS call them flagella. Although the structures of flagella and cilia are similar, I see a real need to distinguish between them, and I don't like the "undulipodia" term. Elizabeth Harris chlamy@acpub.duke.edu ______________________________________________________________________________ Dr. Lynn Margulis who championed the endosymbiotic origin of eukaryotic cells. Undulopodia has been proposed as a substitute for flagella and cilia, but mostly the term has not been accepted, as you don't see it used much in the literature. Paul Gabrielson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Christine, Phycology, being a latecomer among the organismic disciplines, has many instances of inappropriate terminology. Some were borrowed from the background disciplines of the pioneer phycologists, some, like the horrendous use of monoecious and dioecious for haploid organisms, seem to have arisen from the lack of classic training on the part of the new breed of phycologists. Slowly the necessary changes are made. The student of phycology has to learn all the synonyms, including the bad ones, to read the older literature. Lynn Margulis is an authority on undulipodia, flagella, cilia, whatever and certainly she has the credentials to call for a change in nomenclature. I suspect that she is right to point out the differences, but I also suspect that we will be able to live with one term covering two structures. It would have taken a full generation to make the change, before e-mail. Perhaps, by raising the question in this forum, you will speed the change. Bob Rasmussen _______________________________________________________________________ Lynn Margulis has been crusading for use of Protoctista and undulapodia for a few years now, but phycologists are a conservative bunch and don't like to change. I agree with some of her points, but i) Protoctista is not a monophyletic group, so I will wait until the taxonomy is clearer before adopting a new name (Protista and Algae are clear groups, if flawed). Some colleagues have objected to 'undulipodia' on more aesthetic grounds; apparently they think it sounds too 'American' for some. Flagellates and ciliates would be harder to distinguish, hmm? I am sure that convention and precedence will continue to override logic. _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ Dr. John A. Berges _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Biology and Biochemistry _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ Queen's University, Belfast _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ BT9 7BL Northern Ireland _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ FAX: 44 (0)1232 236 505 _/ ____________________________________________________________________________ Christine, 1) For future reference, it is Lynn Margulis. 2) Most biologists who participated in the Handbook (including myself) rose up in revolt and will not not use 'undulipodia' except as a passing joke. It is an unnecessary bit of jargon. Everyone knows the structures are different both in terms of structure and composition. Thus as long as it is clear that one is speaking of a prokaryote rather than a eukaryote, there is no barrier to communication. 3) I would support the distinction in terms only if it were demonstrated that an archaebacterium had a microtubule based flagellum or if a eukaryote could be shown to have a flagellin based, rotary structure. 4) when Gabrielson and myself were involved in preparing the red algal chapter for the Protoctist (another horrible term!) volume, we were going to use 'unundulipodiate' to refer to red algae to emphasize the farcical nature of the term. In the end we restrained ourselves. Best wishes, David _________________________________________________________________________ I recommend flagella David Patterson __________________________________________________________________________ Dear Christine, You have hit upon one of the many points of technical and nomenclatural divide between protistology and phycology (the botanical sense). As you may have read there is an active thread on ALgae-L discussing this broader issue at the moment. Undulipodia is one of those clumsy words that non-protoistologists shy away from instantly. I have not seen in in phycological literature. You would probably find it referred to in protistology books such as Margulis. I have not loooked closely at Margulis for a while. Does it talk of flagellates? to describe motile cells or does it use "Undulipodes". Cheers Chris ________________________________________ Christopher J. S. Bolch, Dept of Plant Science, University of Tasmania, PO Box 252-55, Sandy Bay, Hobart Tasmania, Australia, 7001. PH. (Australia) 03 62261827(Off.) 62261841(Lab) (Internat.) 061-3-62261827 FAX (Australia) 03-62262698 (Internat.) 061-3-62262698 _______________________________________________________________________ Dear Christine, No! We do not use the term. I hope it does not take on. Personally I think it is a wonderful example of the zoological propensity for using big words. The more arcane, the better. I could not even pronounce undulipodia. 9+2 Flagella and bacterial flagella are simple readily understood terms. Why mystify people? It is almost as silly as calling a 100 metre long Macrocystis with differentiated organs as complicated as a gum tree a "protist". Ray RITCHIE Raymond J. RITCHIE Biology A-12, The University of Sydney, Sydney, NSW 2006, Australia.